4 Responses to Orange France Telecom: Turkey is in Europe »»

1. M Naughton
   Comment by M Naughton | 2011/06/03 at 14:51:49

   1) There is no sovereign state called ‘England’ and there has not been since 1707.

   2) Part (4%) of Turkey is in Europe – eastern Thrace.

   3) 96% of Turkey is not in Europe.

   4) The 4% of Turkey which is in Europe is still infinitely larger than the 0% of Cyprus – geographically an entirely Asian territory.

   5) The possibility of EU membership for ‘any European country’ mentioned in Article 49 TEU therefore clearly does not define ‘European’ exclusively by geography

   6) Although the EU is in fact a veritable cornucopia of hypocrisy, opposition to Turkish membership cannot however be written off as pure Islamophobia. If Albania or Kosovo applied to join and met the Copenhagen criteria, they would be accepted.

   7) Neither geography nor religion define ‘European’ in the EU sense. As with so many EU things, the EU use of the term is sui generis.

   8) Opposition to Turkish membership is in truth less about what it is than what it is not – neither small, nor weak, nor malleable. It could not be dominated like so many new member states. The inclusion of a strong Atlanticist country with a growing population and large military would threaten the unfortunate current direction of ‘the project’.

   9) Turkey is a large, secular, democratic Republic having bucked the neighbourhood and cultural trend by living in peace with Israel. As such, it embodies the finest of European ideals. Those who would make the case for Turkish membership of the EU (among whom I count myself) would do well to avoid arguments based on geography. Much stronger arguments can be found which are much harder to refute than Turkey irrefutable geographical position.

2. cem
   Comment by cem | 2011/06/03 at 18:14:16

   Dear Mr Naughton,

   to begin with, thank you for your comment.

   1) There is no sovereign state called ‘England’ and there has not been since 1707.

   What do you mean?

   2) Part (4%) of Turkey is in Europe – eastern Thrace.

   I believe you.

   3) 96% of Turkey is not in Europe.

   I believe you again.

   4) The 4% of Turkey which is in Europe is still infinitely larger than the 0% of Cyprus – geographically an entirely Asian territory.

   Well said!

   5) The possibility of EU membership for ‘any European country’ mentioned in Article 49 TEU therefore clearly does not define ‘European’ exclusively by geography.

   I knew that, but I didn’t know that it was the article 49 TEU.

   6) Although the EU is in fact a veritable cornucopia of hypocrisy, opposition to Turkish membership cannot however be written off as pure Islamophobia. If Albania or Kosovo applied to join and met the Copenhagen criteria, they would be accepted.

   I don’t agree. These countries are small countries, whereas Turkey is a big country.

   When Turkey becomes an EU member, it will have nearly 96 seats at the EU parliament. But as I write at the end of that article, Ms Merkel and her French colleague don’t want Turkey to be at the EU parliament. In fact they want to isolate Turkey in the ghetto of the EU.

   Hence, given that Albania and Kosovo are small countries, that’s not such a big problem for the racist politicians and circles of the EU. In other words, if Turkey were mostly of Christian religion, it would have been an EU member for a long time. Thus, in my opinion Turkey is rejected because of religion, in spite of the signatures of the EU of 1963, 1999 and 2004.

   But of course Turkey has many friends within the EU, such as Sweden, Italy and Spain. But I do not understand why these allies don’t act in concret terms against the anti-Turkey politicians. They support Turkey through the media, but almost no support at the EU parliament.

   7) Neither geography nor religion define ‘European’ in the EU sense. As with so many EU things, the EU use of the term is sui generis.

   Thanks for the explanation.

   I agree.

   Let’s remember that Merkel and the christian democrats of the EU tried to include in the EU constitution: The roots of the EU is Christendom. But fortunately they failed.

   But I’d like to know why they failed.

   8) Opposition to Turkish membership is in truth less about what it is than what it is not – neither small, nor weak, nor malleable. It could not be dominated like so many new member states.

   I fully agree with you. However I want to underline once more that if Turkey were of Christian religion, that would not be a problem. That’s my thought.

   The inclusion of a strong Atlanticist country with a growing population and large military would threaten the unfortunate current direction of ‘the project’.

   On the one hand, are not many EU countries Atlanticist too?

   On the other hand, Turkey is much less dependent on the USA (and their lobbies) than in the past, and Turkey is much less dependent than many EU countries (because of political stability, not because of the current Turkish government – as some lobbies want to make believe).

   I do believe that Turkey is one of the most independent countries of the EU and the world. I’m convinced about that.

   Thus, why would Turkey’s EU membership threaten the curent direction of the project?

   But what is the project? And what is its current direction?

   Lastly, there are already a few big countries in the EU. Germany and France will still be at the EU parliament when Turkey becomes an EU member. So why are some circles within the EU worried? There is no danger. There are 27 EU members, I mean Turkey will not rule the EU. I think that this is a brainwashing of the anti-Turkey EU politicians that aims at making a diversion. Yes, I believe that the problem with Turkey’s EU memberhsip is based on religion. A few EU politicians clearly gave that message in the past.

   9) Turkey is a large, secular, democratic Republic having bucked the neighbourhood and cultural trend by living in peace with Israel. As such, it embodies the finest of European ideals. Those who would make the case for Turkish membership of the EU (among whom I count myself) would do well to avoid arguments based on geography.

   Firstly, if Turkey is in peace today it’s thanks to its political stability, which created a virtuous circle. It’s thanks to the ‘Zero problem with the neighbours’ policy that Turkey and most of its neighbours metamorphosed into countries situated in less destabilized regions.

   Of course there are still tensions and a huge lack of democracy in most of the neighbours of Turkey, but what can Turkey do?

   Turkey has the duty to help these countries become democracies. And the economic and cultural relations that it has been deepening with them are the keys. These steps are the beginnig towards a better future.

   To put it in a nutshell, now there is hope because Turkey aims at maintaining stability and propagating the peace. At last!

   Secondly, through my article “Orange France Telecom: Turkey is in Europe”, on the one hand I aimed at suggesting a new perspective. In fact, in France (but also in the EU) we are used to being reminded by our so-called leaders that Turkey is not in Europe. So, owing to the importance of a company such as Orange France Telecom, I decided that it was worth sharing that news.

   Nevertheless, on the other hand I exactly aimed at explaining your thought. In fact, at the end of the article I wrote this:

   PS. By the way, I have got a question to these experts in geography: are Guadeloupe, Guiana, Martinique, Mayotte island, Réunion, Saint Bart’s, Saint Martin or Saint Pierre and Miquelon in Europe?

   I wrote that because all these islands belong to France (but some of them belong in the same time to some other EU countries) and are considered as EU territories.

   So I exactly aimed at suggesting that we ought to avoid arguments based on geography!

   We well and truly do agree!

   Much stronger arguments can be found which are much harder to refute than Turkey irrefutable geographical position.

   That’s what I tried to do through that article:

   http://turkey.blogactiv.eu/2010/10/25/a-message-to-the-eu-you-do-not-deserve-turkey-but-the-world-does-need-an-eu-member-turkey/

   But also throught these ones:

   http://turkey.blogactiv.eu/2011/04/11/anatolia-inside/

   http://turkey.blogactiv.eu/2011/05/17/bring-on-turkey/

   http://turkey.blogactiv.eu/2009/12/10/turkey-and-the-european-union/

   http://turkey.blogactiv.eu/2010/04/02/the-european-union-turkey-and-angela-merkel/

   http://turkey.blogactiv.eu/2011/05/05/turkey-iran-and-the-usa/

   http://turkey.blogactiv.eu/2010/07/02/politics-and-religion-but-who-is-not-concerned/

   Best regards,

   Cem

3. Javier
   Comment by Javier | 2011/06/14 at 02:48:13

   Always talked about “European Turkey” and “Asiatic Turkey.” I’m tired of this manipulation.

   Geographically, Europe is a peninsula of Asia. Where Europe begins and ends?

   I have more in common with a Turkish than a Russian.

   Spain is one of the pillars that formed Europe, and I’m sure that Turkey is too.

   Regards.

4. Cem
   Comment by Cem | 2011/06/14 at 10:28:17

   Hello Javier,

   some of our so-called French and EU leaders – above all Sarkozy and his vassals of the UMP – always deal with geography about Turkey’s EU membership.

   But whatever they claim about that, Turkey is a part of Europe and the EU:

   historically, culturally, politically and economically.

   In fact, Turkey is a founding member of the Council of Europe (1949). Turkey and the EEC signed the Ankara agreement in 1963 that foresees Turkey’s EEC/EU membership. Turkey is a member of Eurocontrol since 1989. Turkey and the EU signed the Customs Union in 1995. Turkey was recognized as a candidate country to the EU in 1999. The EU-Turkey negotiations begun in 2005. For instance Istanbul was the European capital of culture in 2010. And it will be the European capital of sports in 2012.

   Thus, Turkey is well and truly European. Our so-called French and EU leaders who call into question that European identity are ridiculous and not credible.

   Best regards,

   Cem

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